14 replies to this topic

[logifuse]

Since MS took over Skype, you just knew it was a matter of time before they put their touches on it: http://www.smh.com.a...0614-20bfp.html

I've been looking at direct high quality voice links over the Internet (not VOIP, 1:1 links for studio quality audio), & it occurred to me that surely this should be possible for video too. I've only got a handful of people who I use Skype with, so a system of direct links would work.

Anyone got something to recommend? Some sort of open source video conferencing app is the kind of thing that springs to mind. With a direct link & video resolution control, no doubt the quality would be much better than Skype too.

Justin

[dgaust]

So an ad, that only appears on a voice call when you don't actually have any Skype Credit, plays no audio, is non expanding, can be closed and on a screen that can by minimised makes you want to stop using Skype?

Companies aren't a bottomless pit of cash.

In addition, this feature was announced and trialled before the MS acquisition of Skype was approved and completed

http://blogs.skype.c...ease_notes.htm

In call advertising

In this release we have introduced in-call advertising, which will appear to some of our non-paying customers, during Skype audio calls. Users who have either Skype Credit or any of our subscriptions will not see advertising. Users have the option to hide the ad while on the call by simply clicking on the "Close ad" button.

[logifuse]

No, I want a system that suits my purposes better. If that means I don't assist MS gathering ad revenue, then that's a bonus.

I presume your bandwidth & PVR go unused as you just sit & watch ads on commercial TV? Or perhaps you've found a better solution for your viewing that happens to avoid the ads?

Justin

[skypilot]

What about loading an older version of SKYPE from Filehippo seeing listed in the 5.6 version changes as in call ads?

[Maxx Power]

Back in the day I developed my own video conferencing system built on Flash which worked quite well. It was more of a customer/student support system which worked through the browser (meaning you had to have the browser open).

These days I just use VOIP, but I know that Skype is still very popular in Europe.

I have recently had a few overseas conferences using FaceTime which was very smooth, but you are limited to using Apple software.

Skype was OK when it was owned by the Swedes but as soon as another company bought them out (for multi-billion dollar sums) they were all of sudden in need of a lot more revenue raising to cover that investment.

[logifuse]

The ads aren't the problem, they're just a symptom. The software is bloaty & doesn't perform to the abilities of technology in use. It chooses to downgrade the performance because I'm using an Atom CPU FFS!

For my situation (video calls on a 1 to 1 basis between 5 or 6 family users), I can host a SIP server, so I don't need that (& the overhead it brings) from Skype, & if I can find a simplified client that allows me to tweak the video settings as I see fit, then I'll end up with a system that is better than Skype for my circumstances.

I had a look at Ekiga, but struck problems with my webcams pretty much straight away, so I've punted that. Jitsi looks very interesting. Just tested it over the LAN (using unregistered SIP) & it worked beautifully.

Justin

[Niall]

So an ad, that only appears on a voice call when you don't actually have any Skype Credit, plays no audio, is non expanding, can be closed and on a screen that can by minimised makes you want to stop using Skype?

Companies aren't a bottomless pit of cash.

+100 on that..


I'm not sure what peoples expectations are (seems to be some strange ones here) - there has to be some financial benefit to owning and hosting something as big as Skype - otherwise why on earth would any company invest the sort of cash that's required to run it. The only reason it hasn't had this sort of thing before is that the original owners(s) were building up the company's value by offering it all for free (more users = more perceived value to investors) - however at some point every single company needs to eventually turn this into real revenue - we saw it with google, now facebook, we will see it with twitter - it's just reality.

Personally it's sounds like it's been done in a very subtle way - saw some free call services in the past which made you listen to a 30 second ad at the start of each call.

if you want to run your own SIP server etc - ask yourself - is the CPU power, bandwidth and everything else associated with it (ie. your time) actually going to save you any $$ at all? at some point the guy who made that one needs to eat too!.

[logifuse]

That's fine - if the service or software is good enough to keep using it at the moneterisng stage, then it will do fine. Skype doesn't fit that category for me.

I've got unlimited monthly data, plenty of speed, the required hardware already running & I'm looking at replacing a free service - it's hardly a financial motive.

So I'll ask you the same question I asked dgaust, are you watching all the ads on FTA? And don't watch shows from non-official distribution sources before the local rights holders have aired them? Or have you found a better system that suits your needs? CBC Asia Pacific & Kerry Stokes need to eat too.

Back on topic, Jitsi is really good. It can connect to XMPP servers too - plenty of free ones out there. A stack of other features including screen sharing & wide band audio.

Justin

[Niall]

So I'll ask you the same question I asked dgaust, are you watching all the ads on FTA? And don't watch shows from non-official distribution sources before the local rights holders have aired them? Or have you found a better system that suits your needs? CBC Asia Pacific & Kerry Stokes need to eat too.

lol.. nice try..

however....

When Skype starts telling me I need to wait 6-12 months to make the phone call I need to, picks times which are completely inconvenient to me and then decides I can only hear the other person's sentences all out of order- then by all means I'll be looking for another service...

...until then I'm happy to put up with some subtle advertising as long as it doesn't interrupt my call..

[logifuse]

What will be interesting is in 18 months time when new copies of W7 are scarce, will WMC8 pass the extra cost test?

And presumably having paid $8 billion for a company with next to no cash flow, MS will need to do more with Skype to make some money. At that point the question will be, did they buy the Facebook of video calling, or did they buy the MySpace. I would hazard a guess that a large proportion of Skype users only use it for a handful (or single) connections (one or a couple of family members). That market could easily be switched to a new alternative that springs up. It's only when you have a critical mass of interconnected users, or paid users with reasonable credit/non-portable phone numbers, that moving becomes too hard to bother.

It's people moving away & supporting alternatives to the de facto standard that force the de facto standard to push to be better. It's the same with operating systems, applications, hardware, etc. Companies rely on apathy so that they can simply implement changes their customers don't like, or stifle innovation, or reduce service, etc. The banking industry is the classic example. Going open source (Credit Unions/Building Societies) appeals to many people, but it seems all too hard because of the entanglement you have with your accounts.

Justin

[Maxx Power]

Just because something is "free" to use doesn't mean it doesn't generate revenue for the company.

For example most products by Google are "free" to use, including their search engine, yet last year they generated more than $32 BILLION in total advertising revenue. In fact 97% of Googles revenue is from advertising.

That is why companies like Microsoft (Bing) and Telstra are pumping big bucks into this area.

But like Justin said, if these ads become obtrusive and start annoying users then there are plenty of more people/companies out there ready to give them what they want.

Edited by Maxx Power, 15 June 2012 - 10:15 PM.

[dgaust]

And presumably having paid $8 billion for a company with next to no cash flow, MS will need to do more with Skype to make some money. At that point the question will be, did they buy the Facebook of video calling, or did they buy the MySpace. I would hazard a guess that a large proportion of Skype users only use it for a handful (or single) connections (one or a couple of family members). That market could easily be switched to a new alternative that springs up. It's only when you have a critical mass of interconnected users, or paid users with reasonable credit/non-portable phone numbers, that moving becomes too hard to bother.

They bought it for patents.

[dgaust]

So I'll ask you the same question I asked dgaust, are you watching all the ads on FTA? And don't watch shows from non-official distribution sources before the local rights holders have aired them? Or have you found a better system that suits your needs? CBC Asia Pacific & Kerry Stokes need to eat too.

I watch what I watch, when I want. If that means I watch FTA - then yes I watch the ads. Horrible analogy by the way, ads of FTA are obtrusive and interrupt your viewing/enjoyment. These particular ads don't interrupt anything that you're doing, and they only do it when you haven't paid. IIRC, there are ads on PayTV these days as well.

This thread really did have two parts - A rant about Skype and advertising, which prompted you to look for other options that more suited your needs. The critique of Skype is valid, I don't think it's as good as it used to be - I think the quality backslid. Maybe that was some cost cutting, and now it's in MS's hands there will be some additional investment.

[Dean1M]

MS would have been better off buying Nokia and building a phone business to challenge the iphone. Half the Skype phones I see don't run on Windows 7 unless in XP compatibility mode. So much for up to the minute tech.

MS are at a crossroads and need to either build a better phone/tablet than Apple or go away and stop bothering us. Skype is definitely the MySpace version.

[logifuse]

There have some interesting articles lately about MS' strategy with (the?) Surface (OEM lament), Google's tactics with their "own" hardware, & Apple's strategies.

I was helping out a customer/colleague with his network yesterday & part of that was getting W8 polished up on his Samsung tablet. I really didn't enjoy the experience. I administer W7 machines, I use an Android phone & tablet, & I do a little configuring of iPhones/iPads & the experience with the W8 tablet just didn't get anywhere near any of those. It wasn't as intuitive as Android/iOS as a touch device, & while you know everything is there, getting to the configuration options was so frustrating compared to W7. It was almost a matter of which is it?

It had a stand, bluetooth keyboard & stylus (fingers work too) & yet the experience compared to using a Transformer Prime was hopeless. I know it's a "you'll get used to it" situation, but it was so unsatisfying. I just can't see it being used on a corporate desktop as it's too big a leap from the current desktop. Granted the world is moving away from trad desktops, but not that quickly. If you could keep Metro hidden unless you really wanted it, & brought back a trad Start button in Windows Explorer it wouldn't be a problem.

As for Skype, I can see why MS bought it as it's the kind of app that will tie in nicely with WPhone/MS tablets, but it seems like their long term strategy is heading towards an Apple model which will see MS OS only users as poor cousins & things like the development of Skype focused towards MS devices rather than in general. 18 months ago I moved away from WMC as I didn't think it was going anywhere (apart from just making it in to W8 as an extra, it clearly isn't), now I can see the same happening with Skype as the development focus narrows.

As for whether or not Windows Phone will really take off, it's getting further behind. In Nov 2010 this was Samsungs estimated breakdown of their handset lineup for 2011:

For every 50 smart phones using Windows, it will make 24 using Android and five using Bada.

They currently have 20 models in the Aus Market: 18 Android (including Google Nexus/S) & 2 WP.

The whole PC/tablet/phone market is shifting so quickly, but that's a massive change in strategy in a very short time.

Justin