65 replies to this topic

[01-0077]

Hey Justin,

I'm keen to give ForTheRecord a run with MP 1.2.1, I have only had a quick look at the documentation and am a bit confused. I am having trouble determining how things fit together.

Does FTR replace the MP TVService in its entirety?

Which database are you running with FTR MySQL or MS SQL Server Express? Does it need to be the same DB as was used when MP was setup (I used MySQL for MP but the FTR doco recommends MS SQL Server Express 2008)?

Do you install FTR as a standalone server or server/client. I thought MP would be the client and FTR the server, but now I'm not sure.

Which recorder are you using Argus or MP TV Service?

Any other tips.

Once I get this working I might have a play with the XBMC FTR plugin.

Thanks,

John.

[logifuse]

Hi John,

It can either completely replace the TV Service (the preferred option) or it uses the TV Service, but controls it in terms of telling it when to record, etc.

I've just converted from MPs TV Service to 4TR running Argus (its own TV Service). To do so, I disabled the TV Service service & the MySQL service, installed SQL Express 2008R2 & installed 4TR/Argus. Only reason I went with SQL Express is that they recommended it. It only uses marginally more RAM than MySQL.

You need to have MP installed (either as TV watching client or all in one server), the pre-requisites (DirectX will be fine, but the other one needs to be installed) & then run the 4TR instalation. It will warn that you're running 1.2.1 & that it's only tested to 1.2 beta, but that's OK. I think you choose custom install & then go through & choose Argus rather than MP TV Server. I also pre-configured Windows IIS services as I tried their included web server on my test bed & didn't like it.

My first successful install (proper channels, all tuners, EPG, LCNs, everything right in MP), took me 2-3 hours to work through, plus another hour or so of trying & tweaking, but the next time (yesterday) took me about 20 mins as I knew what I was doing. My main hint would be to get an XMLTV EPG file ready before doing a channel scan - it will save a lot of hassles. I'm using webget grabbing my IceTV data.

Justin

[01-0077]

Thanks Justin, a few more questions if I may.

How have you found FTR? Do you think it is better than MP TVServer?

FTR appears to have a server/client arrangement like MP. Is this so you can have numerous machines set up as FTR clients all accessing the FTR server to setup recordings etc? I would imagine that if you have MP client installed as well, then you could setup recordings etc with either FTR or MP client.

I am going to try installing just the MP client and FTR client/server, from what you are saying when I install FTR it realises MP client is installed and links automatically?

I have seen an FTR plugin in MP TVServer configuration, is this used when you have FTR setup to use MP TVServer rather than Argus?

Did you try the TvGuideImporter in FTR for grabbing your IceTV xmltv file? I had MP TVServer setup to grab my xmltv ice guide previously.

John.

Edited by 01-0077, 15 October 2011 - 10:00 PM.

[logifuse]

Thanks Justin, a few more questions if I may.

Oh, go on then.

How have you found FTR? Do you think it is better than MP TVServer?

Bearing in mind that I'm only a few days in to 4TR after nearly 10 months of MP TV Server, I'm already thinking it's better. It has greater flexibility for scheduling recordings. You can schedule from the MP interface (same process as with MP TV Server), or you can use its Windows console (awesome!) or web interface (nearly as good). It also has much greater logic abilities for skipping repeat screenings & for setting up keyword (or similar) based recordings. MP TV Server uses RTSP for client streaming which can make it a bit laggy on client machines (not the watching, but starting up live TV, changing channel, etc.). There's a hack to use UNC paths which works(ish), but has a huge flaw in that you can't play back recordings in sub-folders (like all series recordings....). 4TR offers RTSP, but supports UNC off the bat & it seems much better.

FTR appears to have a server/client arrangement like MP. Is this so you can have numerous machines set up as FTR clients all accessing the FTR server to setup recordings etc? I would imagine that if you have MP client installed as well, then you could setup recordings etc with either FTR or MP client.

Yes, yes & yes.

I am going to try installing just the MP client and FTR client/server, from what you are saying when I install FTR it realises MP client is installed and links automatically?

Yes. On an MP client only machine, it replaces the TV Plugin (but uses most of it's settings) & all you need to do it configure the plugin (in the MP config app) to point to the 4TR server PC.

I have seen an FTR plugin in MP TVServer configuration, is this used when you have FTR setup to use MP TVServer rather than Argus?

I think so. In that config, 4TR attempts to direct the MP TV Server to do what it's told. Mostly successful from what I've read, but I suspect you still have the RTSP/UNC client issues I mentioned earlier.

Did you try the TvGuideImporter in FTR for grabbing your IceTV xmltv file? I had MP TVServer setup to grab my xmltv ice guide previously.

The one included with 4TR? I had a quick look at it, but it works with pre-configured plugins for particular guides. IceTV offer a tiny command line app called webget (don't think it's their app, but they have it on their site with instructions). I made a batch file for the download process (which drops the resultant .xmltv file in to the auto processed directory of 4TR) & then scheduled it via the task scheduler to run each arvo. It was one of those things about 4TR that's a bit vague - you need to make a few mistakes before you work out the right procedure. Their instructions are much thinner than MPs wiki, but it's powerful once you get there.

I also suggest you edit the terrestial.xml tuning frequencies file before scanning for channels. I edited mine to have the 6 exact frequencies of the MUXes I use & then disabled offset scanning in the scan process. When testing, it appeared that when scanning for offsets, it didn't do the .125 MHz that some of our channels use, so that made the sources of offset channels slightly off frequency.

I'll attach a copy of my IceTV batch file. It assumes you have webget in c:\icetv & you need to enter your username & password, so edit appropriately. From what I can tell, the name of the output file doesn't matter, as long as it's a .xmltv file.

Justin

Attached Files

•  icetv_webget.zip   284bytes   13 downloads

[01-0077]

The one included with 4TR? I had a quick look at it, but it works with pre-configured plugins for particular guides.

Thanks for the tips and webget batch file. I found out that the TvGuideImporter wouldn't work for us after having installed it

The other thing I have found which is missing in FTR is "native" (as in a plugin/checkbox) support for comskip. Mind you it can be enabled to run postprocess style via the FTR Management Console>Administration>Processing Commands.

I haven't checked to see what happens with the Comskip txt file once a recording is deleted. Ideally once you delete the recording it should also delete the associated comskip txt file. When I get time I will check to see what it does, if it's not automatic then I am sure somebody would have created a process command to do a cleanup. Otherwise it might be a job for dvrms toolbox.

Thanks again,

John.

[logifuse]

BTW, in typical me fashion, I just get some software all nicely setup & they release an update. 4TR 1.6.0.1 is out with some bugfixes. Hoping to upgrade my systems this arvo.

I might detach our posts from this thread & move them to a 4TR thread.

Justin

[01-0077]

BTW, in typical me fashion, I just get some software all nicely setup & they release an update. 4TR 1.6.0.1 is out with some bugfixes. Hoping to upgrade my systems this arvo.

I might detach our posts from this thread & move them to a 4TR thread.

Justin

Oh goody, another install in the pipeline, I am sure FTR will keep the settings so shouldn't be too much of a hassle.

[logifuse]

Oh goody, another install in the pipeline, I am sure FTR will keep the settings so shouldn't be too much of a hassle.

All good. It tells you that it's removing the previous version & that it's keeping the settings, but then it throws up a "do you want to delete the tuning info" dialogue . Made sure not to accept that. Then you run through the install - you need to select the type (client/server, client, etc.) & all the options again (webserver, remote login, etc.), so that's a pretty poor scenario for an "upgrade", but once that's done & the setup finishes, all your previous config remains the same (e.g. if you disabled the 4TR radio plugin, it remains disabled, if you deselected RTSP, it remains deselected).

Takes less than a minute on each machine.

Justin

[01-0077]

Justin,

How are you finding channel change times with FTR? On my single seat install it takes 5-6 seconds to change channels. I have read your sticky regarding zap delay time but have yet to change it. Is it simply a case of hitting f9 whilst watching live tv to bring up the osd and change the zap delay?

I have also noticed that if I go to TV in MP and select a program from the guide it takes a good 6 secs for the picture to commence, does yours take this long?

Did you have any issues with "ONE" when setting up your guide channels? I thought it would simply be applying a guide channel to the appropriate service. My icetv xmltv file contains ONE HD whilst the service scan picks up two instances of ONE, this seems to interfering with the xmltv file import as it keeps bombing out although it could be something else I have done wrong.

John.

[logifuse]

OK. Easiest way to change the zap delay is via the MP config app on the desktop (while MP is closed). That immediately eliminates 2 seconds (change from 2 to 0).

Just checked my channel changes, & they're just under 2 secs, less if it's the same MUX (e.g. going from 10 to 11, or from ABC2 to ABC3).

Yep, the start up delay for live TV is about 5 seconds here. I read a suggestion on the 4TR forum that they should at least have some sort of indicator that it's starting. I'll look in to it further, but in MP TV server you can pre-load a tuner so that it starts quickly, so there may be something in Argus.

I'm using a DN Quad, BTW. Haven't tried this with my HVR-2200s.

In MP TV server, the other speed tweaks were all based around pausing the stream graphs instead of killing them & starting them again. Not sure if Argus has the same types of options. I suspect that if you used 4TR with MP TV Server instead of Argus, you could get more responsiveness in the live TV department, but Argus is way more robust.

You need to manually match One to OneHDs guide data in the 4TR MC (not the Tuners MC). ABC2 aswell:

 guidechannels.JPG   56.32K   25 downloads  Channels.JPG   81.14K   25 downloads

In the channels screen, delete anything you don't need (e.g. 1 of the Ones, the duplicate versions of ch 7, the OneHD & ABC2 that were added by the guide data, SBS 3 & 4, the extra ABC1), & if your scan didn't add LCNs, add them manually (I did). I sort via LCN too.

Gotta say, I know it's been an effort to get here, but I am seriously excited by the software. Once you've managed to get everything right, you should be able to do a new one from scratch in about 15 mins if required. I've done channel logos too - had to change the name of ABC2/4Kids as the / causes the logo png to fail.

Justin

[01-0077]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I'm using an hvr2200 and a compro e700. Will change the zap delay tonight and see what the times are like. Might also disable the compro and see if that helps.

It seems I was doing everything correctly with the guide listings, however in my experimenting I may have upset something in the database. The xmltv file ends up in the xmltv\rejected folder. I did have it working at one stage but wasn't happy so deleted everything and started again - stupid. I will try clearing the epg cache and starting over with a new xmltv grab. Do you think FTR will process the xmltv without having done a service scan?

BTW if you hadn't already discovered it you can delete unwanted services after a scan has been done. A couple of my earlier scans picked up some strange SIDS on the 167 offsets and this method allows you to delete them and the other double ups. From memory in the services section of the tuners MC you have the option of hiding a service. If you shift-hide then you can actually delete the service.

I was wondering where the ONE HD and ABC2 channels were coming from, hadn't thought it was from the guide data. I also noticed that ONE didn't have an LCN do you add this via the FTR MC because I couldn't add them in the tuners MC

I tried changing some of the settings in the terrestrial.xml to see if I could get 125 offsets but to no avail, they must be set in the code. I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing but tried adding one of the flags which had a setting of 1/8 which I thought might equate to a .125 offset but it didn't appear to do anything.

Which channel logos are you using? I downloaded some from either the FTR or MP site but the red 7 logo looks a bit funky. The Streamed MP skin has good logo's but they don't seem to want to install when you are not using the MP TVServer.

John.

[logifuse]

My usual proviso with HVR-2200s stands - the older drivers change channel much faster. Doesn't seem to be application specific.

Yes it will process the XMLTV prior to scanning, I suggest doing an EPG grab before tuning as it streamlines the config process if the data is already there.

I read that you could shift-hide there the other day, but I don't worry about that now as I use use a 6 frequencies specific Terrestrial.xml with no offset scanning.

Yeah, the LCNs can be added in the FTR MC & not the tuners MC - took me about 20 mins to work out why I couldn't edit the field in the tuners MC. Same screen where you match the guide.

The terrestrial.xml - I assume channel 9 is on 191.625 over there too? Just go to the 191500000 & change it to 191625000 (under the <terrestrial name="Australia: DVB-T Frequencies" flags="5"> section. Same for any other known offset (community Ch 31 is on an offset here too). I suggest you just leave the 6(?) lines for the frequencies you use there & get rid of the rest in that section (keeping the same structure, but with 6 lines instead of the 50 odd).

I'll zip my logos up & attach them later (got a beer appointment in 15 mins & I need a shower!).

Justin

[logifuse]

OK, here's my pack of logos (includes TVS, so you'll need to swap that for your local community station). I got most of them from the MP forum, but I resized the ch 7 one as it looked wrong (as you saw), I changed the ch 9 one as it wasn't quite right either, & I found an ABC2-4Kids logo on the Austar site.

Logos are pretty easy to find. I just do a Google images search & pick out any likely png files. The ones from Wikipedia are good as you can see that they have no white surround.

Edit: Just re-reading your post, are you trying to add channel logos in MP & not 4TR? 4TR has a channel logos folder that allows you to do it centrally for all clients.

I've also attached my terrestrial.xml file with the main Sydney frequencies only, so edit it for local conditions.

Justin

Attached Files

•  Terrestrial.zip   716bytes   9 downloads
•  Channel Logos.zip   253.06K   25 downloads

[logifuse]

Hi John,

I just threw an HVR-2200 in to my test machine at my office here & did some testing. Bearing in mind that I'm testing on 2 powerful PCs (server is an i7 & live buffer is on a DDR3 RAM drive, client is a C2Quad) & I'm using the Windows Update driver for the HVR (086 - one of the quick ones), experience is good. Still 5-6 seconds from selecting something in the EPG to viewing TV, but channel changes are slick (less than 2 secs, often around 1). Not using RTSP on the client, the experience is near identical to viewing on the server.

I had a look at the advanced tuner settings & set the pause graph option - didn't seem to improve things (slightly worse if anything). I remember that this was the case with the HVRs using MP TV Server too, so it's just not something that benefits the card. Where it did help was after stopping live tv, then going to the EPG & selecting something, it came up near instantly. That's because the card's graph is paused, so it only needs to tune to the station instead of having to build the graph as well.

There's no pre-load option (which would effectively do the above even when starting from scratch), but I don't see why they wouldn't be able to add the option. The only issue is the tuner priority. The top priority tuner is always used by the first call for a tuner, whether that's for live viewing or recording, so if you pre-loaded the top priority card, it wouldn't help if a recording was in progress at the time you started live TV.

Justin

[01-0077]

Thanks heaps Justin, man you do your research.

My usual proviso with HVR-2200s stands - the older drivers change channel much faster. Doesn't seem to be application specific.

Which drivers are you using? From memory I am using 27223.

The terrestrial.xml - I assume channel 9 is on 191.625 over there too?

This is interesting, I always thought 9 and WTV (TVS equivalent) where on offsets 191625 and 536625 respectively in WA. When I scanned with FTR I used my compro card and mapped to the other tuners from this. The compro scanned 9 & WTV on 191500 and 536500 so I just assumed my understanding of the broadcast frequencies was incorrect. However, when I tried to check the status of the hvr2200 tuners (in FTR) they couldn't tune to those frequencies for 9 & WTV. I changed the frequencies in the terrestrial.xml to the offsets and tried scanning with the hvr2200 and hey presto it tuned both 9 & WTV. I then tried the compro and it also tuned using the offsets. I dont understand? I have left it with the offsets for the time being so that all 4 tuners work with 9 & WTV. Any ideas?

got a beer appointment in 15 mins

How's the head?

Edit: Just re-reading your post, are you trying to add channel logos in MP & not 4TR? 4TR has a channel logos folder that allows you to do it centrally for all clients.

No, what I was trying to do was copy the StreamedMP logos from the TeamMediaPortal folder to the FTR folder but I couldn't find them. I thought StreamedMP logos where placed in a StreamedMP folder and that folder didn't exist so I assumed this was because I hadn't installed MP TVServer. However last night I found the logos in the TeamMediaPortal folder, they are the same as the ones I already had.

One thing I did notice was that under the FTR folder there is a sub folder for the TV logos and there is also a TV logo cache folder. The logos I copied into the TV logos folder are all around 150x150 and the seven.png doesn't have the odd look. In the TV logo cache folder there are two subfolders 64x64 an 84x84, the seven.png in the 84x84 is the dodgy one, so presumably FTR takes the original png from the TV logo folder and resizes/caches it, but I cant understand why would it create the distorted seven.png?

Now my real problem is still really slow channel changes. I changed the zap delay to zero and it helped a little bit. I disabled each tuner and tried them individually. I disabled RTSP (single seat install). The other thing that is happening is that when I change channel I get audio but no video of the new channel and the osd at the bottom of the screen doesn't disappear. I checked the forum and this was happening for some people when they would resume from pause. The suggestion was to change some buffer settings in one of the config files but I ran out of time last night. This happens on most channel changes but sometimes not. The times it doesn't happen seem to be when changing to a channel in the same mux.